This is part of a series of interviews that I conducted as part of The Chevrons Project. Mary worked in Ukraine until the start of the full-scale invasion, after which she became a volunteer. She was able to provide some context around people wearing chevrons before the full-scale invasion due to her living in Ukraine already.
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Vic: First, can you tell me your name and a bit about yourself, please?
Mary: Okay, my name is Mary Heslin. I am an American. I have been traveling to Ukraine since 1979 when it was part of the Soviet Union. I was in Ukraine in the early 90s frequently. I was in Ukraine in September- August/September of 2014, on the Maidan, when there were still- when there were still tents up, and you could still see the remains of the Revolution of Dignity. 2017 I started working for OSCE[1], and I worked for OSCE in the East in Lugansk- Luhansk and Severodonetsk, until I was forced to evacuate by the State Department before the full-scale invasion by Russia.
Vic: Thank you for that. I didn’t realize you were in Ukraine around the Maidan.
Mary: Yeah, it was sort of coincidental. It was interesting because I had been working in Afghanistan, and I came in at night. I flew in- you could use the airport back then. I flew in, I got a car to a bed and breakfast that was right on the Maidan. It was night, I didn’t see anything, and I came out in the morning, and I thought, oh, it looks just like Kabul. There were barriers up, and there were obvious signs of things having been blown up, and one of the post offices, the front had been blown off. And it just seemed it took me a day before I realized that that was only that one tiny area, not all of Kyiv.
Yeah, there was a lot was happening. They were collecting money. The volunteer groups had not been regularized. There were- all the battalions were collecting money. You couldn’t walk on the Maidan without giving everybody money for the troops. All the volunteer stuff was really super active. And there were monuments to all 100 of the people who were killed by the snipers. So it was, it was a very dramatic place to be. And this was, I think it was, while the things were being resolved with Dnipro, it was a pretty critical time with the war in the east, but. Yeah. It was interesting.
Vic: So again, when was it you moved to the east to do the monitoring the front?
Mary: January 2017, I moved to Lugansk. We called it Lugansk because it was Russian controlled, and we spoke Russian there. So the Russians call it Lugansk, and the Ukrainians call it Luhansk. So I lived in Lugansk and worked in Luhansk, because our official language was Ukrainian. The big problem with our group- we were monitoring the Minsk accords. The Minsk accords, out of Ukrainian desperation, were based on a fallacy that it was a civil war, and Russians were part of the OSCE team monitoring the Minsk accords. So we had our employees- our local employees were Ukrainians, and we had international monitors, including a huge Russian contingent. So that was quite strange and surreal. And we were supposed to be unbiased, and that was the thing. We were supposed to “facts only” and be unbiased. But there’s no question that a lot of what we reported was useful intelligence for the Russians.
Vic: You said before- before this, that during your time there, you saw some of the forces were wearing chevrons. Could you tell me a bit more about that?
Mary: Yeah, I was most at the beginning- 2017 to 2020, I was on the on the Russian side, basically. And the chevrons I bought in the stores- I bought the funny ones. I didn’t pay attention to so much what units the guys were when we met them. I sort of actually never, never wanted to know. I mean, I know when I was seeing Ukrainians- Ukrainian forces on the other side, I damn well wasn’t going to report what the unit was, because, you know, I didn’t want it to go into the Russian intelligence. So I almost didn’t pay attention on purpose.
But in Lugansk, in the underpasses, and- you know how they sell stuff in the underpasses all over Ukraine, both the Russian controlled side and on this side- they would sell the chevrons. And they were mostly funny, and now I realize not so funny. So the ones that I bought were- it was one with an AK-47 that said, in Russian, “study Russian”, there was one that said, “keep calm and wait for the Russians”. There’s one I didn’t get that was like, “I’m allergic to дебилs”, or you know, that meaning “retarded”, the same sort of level of insult. My work is so- I didn’t buy that one. “My work is so secret that even I don’t know what I’m doing”. And so I think everyone in my organization bought that one. So, yeah, there’s the soldiers that- not the soldiers we weren’t allowed to consider them official- the militia. They all wore things like that. Pro-Russian, pro-Russian language chevrons with their unit, chevrons and stuff.
Vic: Did civilians ever have chevrons, for instance, on backpacks or hats?
Mary: That I didn’t notice, no. Civilians really didn’t that much- no, I did not see that.
Vic: Did anyone have displays of chevrons, like units that they support?
Mary: We were in the east. No, I think it was a little different.
Vic: So it was just solely like the soldiers in air quotes that were wearing them, really?
Mary: Yeah. And then the international monitors buying them as souvenirs. <laughs>
Vic: And so before the full scale invasion in 2022 they just weren’t so much of a thing as they are now. Or would you say they were still being sold as commonly as they are now?
Mary: Um. I think that they were sold then on both sides- I said, in Severodonetsk and Lugansk you could buy them. Um, I think there’s more now at the full-scale invasion, yea. I’d say, yeah, definitely. They’re more available everywhere, and I think there’s more interest and more likely people to wear them. I think a lot during the east, you know, people, a lot of people in the west [of Ukraine], like, wanted to pretend it wasn’t happening, almost it was like some far away war.
Vic: So since you’ve come to Lviv, you’ve spent quite a bit of time doing volunteer work. Would you be able to tell me a little bit about some of the volunteer work that you’ve done in Lviv?
Mary: Yeah. Basically, I started off with a kitchen that made the food for the troops. Worked with an organization that makes drones. I’ve worked on energy bars. I’ve worked on netting. I do a lot of support for people coming in. Like, I know a lot of people through my former work with OSCE. So people come in and out, I do a lot of support for them. I ship a lot of stuff around to people on the front who need it. This is, you know, I’m not doing the same thing every day, but it’s interesting. I’ve sure met a lot of great people.
I wanted to show you this. This is- I work for OSCE, and this is from the Russian side. And it’s- you get the idea, the three blind mice.
Yeah, that’s who they saw us as.
Vic: <laughs> I mean, it’s a magnet, but it could be a chevron.
Mary: Oh yes, yes, absolutely. I think it was a chevron on some of their militia.
Vic: During your time as a volunteer in Lviv, have you received any chevrons?
Mary: No. I have received a sort of a crocheted yellow and blue heart from a soldier in the hospital- in the regular, in the military hospital, where people come from the stabilization points. When in the hospital, they get treatment, and then they’re shipped off to the rehabilitation points, or shipped back to the to the front.
Vic: And you’ve also received a medal.
Mary: Yes, I did not! Not quite sure why, but it’s very, extremely valuable to me.
When I think about it- there’s so many people that do so much, much more than I do, but I’ve still done something, damn it. So yeah, I’m happy to have it, and it’s, it is one of my most prized possessions, I must say.
Vic: How does receiving the little woven figure that you’ve got on your bag compare to receiving the medal?
Mary: Well, they’re both really valuable to me. The medal is easier to explain to other people- you see a medal it’s a medal, whereas like unless you’re here and you understand what it means that you know somebody, somebody missing a leg, gave you something, and you did nothing for them except give them chocolate chip cookies and pistachios. You know, it’s, it’s hard to explain. But it’s a sign of its personal sacrifice. I mean, that’s- It’s like someone’s leg hanging on my backpack, you know?
Vic: Do you feel like gifting chevrons and things like the- the little guy have very strong cultural significance here?
Mary: Yeah? Well, yeah. People make statements with their chevrons and, yeah, if soldiers, you know from the front gives you chevrons. It has meaning. It connects you. You know, you feel like you’re connected to the front, even if you’re not there.
Vic: How do you feel about chevrons you can purchase from stores?
Mary: I’ve bought some from the stores. <laughs> But it’s not the same, you know, the, you know- no, I’ve never bought military ones from the store, but the fun one- but no, I got a chevron from the netting place, and that matters to me a lot. I might put that on. I bought a Патрон[2] chevron. I love that Патрон chevron. So, yeah. But I think that they’re meaningful when they’re given to you.
Vic: How did you feel when you received your chevron from the netting place?
Mary: Oh, I was very happy. <laughs> Although I don’t- I’m simply not one of their best netters so, you know, it’s like, “oh, well”, but I do something, so- whatever I do, it’s better than nothing. So I’m contributing to the cause.
Vic: Definitely. I’m not sure if you’ve seen but you can buy the chevrons of various military units in some of the market stores.
Mary: Yeah.
Vic: How do you feel about that?
Mary: Well, I- It’s fine I mean, that they’re selling them. There’s a market for them. I’m not sure exactly. Some of them are going to those units, I guess, and the units, I guess, would buy extras to give them away. But yeah, I don’t know exactly what the markets are for those. Maybe they’re collectors. Not sure.
Vic: Fair. If you see someone who’s got a bunch of chevrons on the bag, do you pay much attention to them?
Mary: Absolutely, yeah! <laughs> of course. When you’re standing in line to come in or out, you check out everyone’s chevrons, of course.
Vic: Do you make different assumptions about people based on what kind of chevrons they’ve got?
Mary: Yeah, if someone’s a volunteer, you know- if you’re an official volunteer, you’ll have a volunteer chevron, that’s important. People who wear, like, fake military crap, that’s really offensive. But yeah, I mean, the chevron sort of tell you what organization they’re with, or where they’ve been, what they’ve done. So it’s almost like, it’s like a little history. It’s like refrigerator magnets on your backpack.
Vic: So by fake military crap, do you mean like someone’s wearing camouflage-
Mary: It’s actually against the law here to do that, but some idiots do it sometimes.
Vic: Yeah
Mary: So it’s not good.
Vic: If you saw someone who had a backpack with a bunch of different chevrons from different military units, would you make any assumptions about them?
Mary: Yeah, I’d probably ask them why <laughs>
Vic: <laughs> You’d ask them?
Mary: Yeah, why not? Why did you buy them? Did they give them to you? I don’t think people put them on just for- I can’t imagine you’d put one on for a military unit, one on your bag, as a civilian unless you were connected to it somehow. I mean, I wouldn’t put one on unless it had been given to me by that unit.
Vic: So if there was a unit that you particularly enjoyed supporting, but they’ve not given you a chevron, would you feel comfortable going to a store and buying one of their chevrons and shoving it on your bag to show you support?
Mary: No, no. That’s cheating! <laughs>
Vic: <laughs> You’ve got to earn it?
Mary: Yeah.
Vic: How do you feel about volunteer organizations like the net making place or the drone place that produce their own chevrons? Do you feel it gets them more volunteers, more return customers?
Mary: Or some of them make money off of them. I mean, NAFO made a lot of money off things like that, and I know that Front Line Kit sells them, so it’s definitely for visibility. I mean, when I talk to people, I show them- you know, I have a sticker, not a chevron for Front Line kit. And when I meet people, and they ask “what do you do” I’ll show them that. And oftentimes, Ukrainians will just take a picture of it so that they have that and they can they can Google it or whatever later on.
Vic: Go Google brain damaged dogs?
Mary: <laughs> Or Front Line Kit. You can find it pretty easily if you Google it.
Vic: So you’re quite a fan of the NAFO fellas?
Mary: Yes, absolutely.
Vic: Like, you’ve got a fella?
Mary: I’m a fella, yeah.
Vic: Like the avatar?
Mary: Yeah, the avatar.
Vic: Have you ever thought about getting that made into a chevron?
Mary: No, it’d be stupid, have myself on my backpack.
Vic: Maybe you could hand it out to people like “you just met Mary” <laughs>
Mary: <laughs> No, I’m not that person. But I mean, yeah, I know that would be really weird for me. <laughs> But I’ve seen chevrons that I mean- they’re just great. You know, there’s some great NAFO chevrons. I don’t think mine is a classic. It’s fine. Tony did it, but it’s nothing- in the pantheon of chevrons, it’s not one of the best.
Vic: So if someone did make a- or got a chevron printed of their fella, and then handed it out to people that they met, would you- what kind of things would that make you think about the person?
Mary: I don’t know. I’d take it if I liked the chevron, if I like the fella. Some of them are great.
Vic: Yeah, I think that’s all the questions I had for you. Do you have anything else you’d like to say about chevrons or anything in general? Any quick rants?
Mary: Fuck Trump. Слава Україні[3]. Fuck Putin. Vic: Okay, thank you for your time.
[1] Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe
[2] Pronounced patron, translating bullet casing- the name of a famous explosives detection dog and mascot for the State Emergency Services in Ukraine
[3] A common phrase, translates as “glory to Ukraine”