This post is the first in a new series I’m doing on speaking to people in Ukraine about the popular stories which have arisen since the start of the full-scale invasion. I’ll be posting more info about the project and more interviews as I bring things together.
This interview was conducted over Zoom with Ivan, a resident of Kyiv.
Vic: Okay, so first up, can you just give me like a brief “who are you”? Your name, where you live in Ukraine?
Ivan: Okay, so I’m [Redacted] Ivan, Ivan [Redacted] in English, we say differently, because in Ukrainian, usually surname goes first. In English, usually first name goes first, so yeah. I am Kyivian, I live here for almost 30 years already, since I was born. I’m a Ukrainian language tutor. I teach Ukrainian to foreigners, and also I teach English to Ukrainians.
Vic: Cool, thank you. Let’s jump into things. How do you normally get your news about the current state of the full-scale invasion?
Ivan: Usually I check newsfeed in different Telegram channels. Also sometimes I scroll Instagram, when my friends or people I know post something, yeah? Also it may be X, which was Twitter, but it’s now X, I don’t know how to call it now <laughs>. Sometimes it is Tiktok or YouTube, just some short videos. And yeah, I never watch TV. I don’t even have it working in my home. It’s not connected <laughs>. But yeah, I think that’s pretty much it.
Vic: Cool. When you’re looking at things on social media, like whatever news you’re consuming, do you often see stories about the actions of individual people?
Ivan: I would say now we see that less, but in the first year or two of full scale invasion, yes, it happened a lot. Every few or every other month, there was a like national hero or symbol, and I think at that time, like everybody heard the story of Ghost of Kyiv, everybody heard the story about grandma with jar of pickled cucumbers. So I think, all of these stories started appearing, I think in March. I think in February, nothing was happening. There were no like, you know, names or something. But I think in March, April, these like symbols of resistance appeared.
Vic: Could you tell me, based on your recollections of it, the story of the Ghost of Kyiv.
Ivan: I remember we were getting messages every other day that, yeah, there is, you know, Kyivian guy who is flying a jet and who’s winning all of the dog fights. And every other day there is reports that he shot two Russian planes, one Russian plane, three Russian planes. So, I don’t remember the exact amounts, but yeah, he was quite successful. And it was happening for a few weeks, if I remember correctly, maybe even for a few months, because, you know, all of this time during the war is kind of like glued into like periods before something happened, and something.
So, for example, in my mind, there is a period of the first attack, like, which happened in February, and then it was like February until April, or the time when we push them back from Kyiv region and Kharkiv region, then there was like something happening. Then it was push, when it pushed them from Kherson. And I remember it not like in the days or weeks or months, but like in kind of time periods.
So in this first period, until they got pushed from Kyiv, there was a Ghost of Kyiv, and I think he, like, you know, destroyed, or how you call it… eliminated, a military term <laughs>, eliminated like more than 10, 15 enemy planes, which is quite a good result. And at some point he disappeared. And then I think somewhere in the end of the summer, maybe in fall, there was a news report which said that he was eliminated by our enemies. And then people started telling that it was not only one person, but it was a team of people or something. But I didn’t know the truth.
But yeah, I heard that Ukrainian flight school had a lot of decent pilots, and that on different international, uhh, like piloting events? Where people, like shows the tricks and all of that. There were a lot of Ukrainian pilots at these places. And I attended one of these, like, fly shows in Kyiv when I was teenager, and, yeah, we have quite a lot of good pilots there. So probably, yeah, we have people who know how to fly <laughs>.
Vic: Did you discuss the story much with your friends at the time, when it was in the news a lot?
Ivan: Oh yeah, yeah, there were a lot of memes. There was a meme with Petro Poroshenko being the ghost of Kyiv <laughs> which, yeah, I can send to you later. It is just funny. And me and my friend Vlad, which is my former classmate, we still keep in touch, and we still good friends, we discussed his exploits, you know, when they happened. And yeah, we were kind of admiring him, but yeah, we were upset when we heard that he’s eliminated or dead. And yeah, it was upsetting because everybody believed that he’s, like, invincible. But I guess, you know, the longer war goes, the more people die, so it’s just statistics.
Vic: So did you feel a form of personal connection to the Ghost of Kyiv?
Ivan: Mmmm. Considering I’m from Kyiv, kinda, yes. Because it was, I think, the biggest symbol, for me especially, because again, I’m from Kyiv, and everything that was going was happening around this area, and to me it was closer than other symbols, let’s say.
Vic: Did they ever post things like photos of the Ghost of Kyiv, or was it a lot more hearsay?
Ivan: So no I never heard posts of him. Never heard of his face being posted or something. But there were some posts with him, like sitting in like his helm so like you cannot see his face, in his jet. And, there were photos like, “ready to start” or “ready for today’s like, you know, work day or hard work”, whatever it was written. But I remember there was a few posts like that.
Vic: So was that the Ghost of Kyiv posting himself on social media, or other people posting saying it’s him?
Ivan: No no no, probably not him, probably not, it wasn’t like selfie. It was photo taken from the air base or wherever he was, I don’t know, but it was photo from the side, so it was not him promoting himself, surely.
Vic: Okay, and how would you say that he’s permeated, like, ended up kind of ingrained in the culture. Like, is he still talked about? Do you still see memes about him?
Ivan: Hmmm, memes? Yes, sometimes. But in a good way, like the same memes with Poroshenko even four years after that. When I see that, I don’t scroll over it, I just look and enjoy <laughs>. But I would say that, yeah, after him, we got a lot of other symbols, but he was like, the brightest one and the most well known. So people remember him, people definitely remember him, and he’s the thing that people will remember even after war I think.
Vic: Okay. You mentioned about the lady throwing the jar of cucumbers. Could you tell me about her, please?
Ivan: Oh, I don’t remember a lot about her. I remember that <laughs> there was a photo with old grandma throwing jar from her window. And I haven’t even seen the drone that she hit, but I heard that she hit the drone. I didn’t know, like, you know how close drone should be so you can throw a jar at it <laughs>.
Yeah, it kind of sounds like it’s just a symbol, so I don’t believe that she actually could hit it, because you also should have, you know, quite strong arms and be accurate <laughs>. She was grandma, like, I don’t know. But yeah, everybody was laughing, and I would say that it was good in terms of, like, bringing up mood and brightening the days. Because, you know, war is tough, and everybody is everyday losing people and friends. So, yeah, lightening up mood is quite a good thing.
Vic: Can you remember roughly when the story started?
Ivan: Ooooh, I don’t remember at all. I think in the first half years of war. I don’t remember exactly when. With the ghost of Kyiv I remember more or less when it was happening with her. I don’t remember if she was before or after him. I don’t remember.
Vic: Okay. And do you remember where you heard about her from?
Ivan: Oh, from Tiktoks, from news, like channels and Telegram. People were reposting her. She was very popular, like, when it exploded let’s say. When her popularity was at top. Everybody was talking about her and laughing at that, yeah. We also had another story about gypsies. I can say that word, gypsies?
Vic: Yeah
Ivan: So stealing a tank from Russians <laughs>. Yeah, usually we are used to, like, they steal horses, but stealing a tank was a new thing so everybody was laughing at that. Also, yeah, we heard about, I think, a guy who was a tractor driver who towed Russian tank, so kind of stealing a tank. But, you know, with his, you know, usual equipment <laughs> with his usual tractor, which he used every day. So I don’t know how gypsies managed to control it, because it’s weird and you need to know where to push, its complicated device. But towing? It’s more or less believable. However, you know like the size of a tractor and the size of a tank, because tanks are quite heavy, but tractors are quite strong, so I don’t know.
Vic: Do you ever see photos claiming to be of these people or these events?
Ivan: I’ve seen- I think I saw a photo with this grandpa, old guy who towed tank. I don’t remember anything about gypsies, and I don’t remember that I’ve seen their photos and I think that they are not the people who take a lot of photos. They are like moving in silence, as [Redacted] says <laughs>. That’s usually their style. But yeah, I think the old guy, there was a photo of him? Probably a mistake. That was a long time ago.
Vic: So you mentioned that you see these things on social media, and you talk about them with your friends. Do you think that the older generation also are interested in these stories?
Ivan: I know the older generation which is like my mother and people of her age, probably they do not talk too much because they’re like in their 50s, they’re busy working, etc. But even older generation, like my grandma, oh, they’re discussing all of that on the bench. They’re discussing that all day long <laughs>. That’s for sure.
Vic: Have you ever chatted to your grandma about this stuff?
Ivan: I have chatted with my grandma. I heard her like talking about that with her friend Luda on the phone for hours <laughs>. So yeah, Grandma is quite a talkative person, so I think she discussed that for a few times.
Vic: Okay, cool. Another story I’ve heard about was about a boy who got a drone for Christmas and he managed to use it to fly, fly over and spot some Russians. Have you heard about that one?
Ivan: Yeah, I heard. I didn’t know if he got it for Christmas or not, but I remember that, yeah, it was like a gift from his parents. Probably Christmas gift, because winter was still on. Christmas was happening probably. I heard that, yeah, he had, like usual drone with the camera, just probably the one that you can make photos of somebody’s wedding, you know, the drone, which can make some videos. And yes, that he was flying somewhere to the side, and he supported Russians. And because we have, like, from the very first days of invention, we have a thing in our app Diia, which most of Ukrainians have in their phone, there was like a button “є ворог” which is like “there is an enemy”. So if you spot any enemy, like movement, or their vehicles, or something related to enemies, or just explosives or whatever, you can use this app to tell where and what you’ve seen. So I guess he reported it there, because I don’t know where else you can report technically, when that app is that everybody knows. So probably he reported it there.
Vic: Okay, do you know roughly what area of Ukraine he was in?
Ivan: It was written… it was written in the news report, but I don’t remember where he was, but it was written for sure because it was like “teenager from blah, blah, blah”. So I remember how the article looked, but I don’t remember the city or area, unfortunately.
Vic: Okay, so that one was in like, it was a news report about an actual event, like with-
Ivan: Yeah, I think it was not far from Kyiv, because it was still in the period when Kyiv was getting the occupied by Russians. And I think it was somewhere around Kyiv, but I don’t remember exactly.
Vic: Okay, so it’s another older story.
Ivan: Yeah, it’s kind of an older story, yeah.
Vic: Okay. Um. Do you ever look more into these stories? Like, say you heard about the old lady who threw the jar of cucumbers? Would you- would you then go and Google the story? Or do you just wait for the stories to reach you on social media or through friends?
Ivan: I don’t think that I either Googled or, like, fact checked or like tried to look close in the story. I’ve just discussed whatever I’ve read of this like, news feed that I have, and sometimes my friends were giving like more details because they rather heard them from somebody or from somewhere. But I don’t remember myself, like, trying to dive deeper into the story and get more details. I think that I’ve tried to check which plane was Ghost of Kyiv piloting, but I don’t remember already the model. It was, like long time ago, probably it was one of the Su but they don’t remember Su-27 or Su-28, I don’t know. They have a model line from like 20 to 35 or whatever. So, yeah, a lot of models.
Vic: Yeah. So a lot of these are stories are kind of from earlier during the full-scale invasion. Can you think of any that might have popped up in the, say, the past year?
Ivan: I need to think. Hmm. I don’t remember anything happened past year, where we had, like a hero, or some something symbolic. I think that the last time it was happening was maybe a few years ago. There was like, Pes Patron. She was the de-mining champion. It was this young guy, the Ghost of Kyiv, maybe after that was grandma who was burning Russian somewhere in a toilet, or something, because she like- before, they came to her house, she gave them- she added to their food and drinks, something so they will shit a lot, um…
Vic: Laxative?
Ivan: Laxative <laughs>. Okay, so she gave them that, and when they were, you know, shitting their pants in her toilet, she closed the door and burned the toilet with them. But that also that was happening somewhere in 22nd 23rd so I don’t remember any stories since that.
I think last year, we didn’t have a lot of success, and I’ve heard more stories about the places that are holding up, rather than about the people. I’ve heard about, like Bakhmut, that it was holding up for a long time. Then it was another city, and it was about the cities that, you know, Russians took then we took it back, we placed our flag. But there were no names or no people. There was just kind of, general success or small victory or something. But it wasn’t like a person related to that.
Vic: Was there any narrative around it? Like, was it more of a like, fact oriented, they took this city, then we took it back, or was there more a narrative?
Ivan: Kind of like that, kind of like that. It was like, “Russians took the city, we managed to push them out, we put our flag, the city is under our control”. Then, like, you know, a few weeks, months after Russians, you know, push the city. And, yeah, we took another city, we moved to another city, we started defending it, and the story happens again. So I think unfortunately, last year we didn’t have a lot of success, and we are like, you know, losing territories, and I don’t think that we have a lot of symbols that they show us in the media.
Vic: Do you ever hear stories about like, Russian soldiers doing anything noteworthy? Other than dying?
Ivan: I heard only the stories of Russian soldiers suiciding sometimes. But I don’t think that it’s very bright stories, and I think that our soldiers also do that from time to time. Like a few weeks ago, maybe a few months ago, I don’t remember, I saw a video where there was a Russian soldier in a trench, and something was thrown at him from the drone that exploded, and I guess he got hit quite severely. Then he decided to end his life because I guess he understood that he couldn’t make it out. And yeah, that was the only exploit I’ve seen Russian soldiers do. I haven’t heard about their like, heroes or their like, you know, doing something great <laughs>. Probably there are some stories.
Vic: I don’t think- I’ve heard I think stories of people killing themselves in interesting ways, but never anything attached to a specific person, just generically-
Ivan: Russian exploits, which I heard was like chopping off Ukrainian soldiers hand, or chopping off Ukrainian soldiers testicles. That are exploits they can do, but they cannot do something normal and human. So never heard anything good of them, unfortunately.
Vic: So you mentioned earlier, going back to slightly happier stuff-
Ivan: Oh there was one of the exploits! There was a Russian soldier who successfully stole Russian helicopter and brought it to Ukrainian airbase. There was one hero!
Vic: I think, yeah-
Ivan: I think he got a lot of money <laughs> and something like citizenship or protection, I don’t remember what exactly, but he got like, assurance that he won’t be, you know, prosecuted, or that he will be sent in jail right after he will bring the helicopter. And, yeah, he got rich, he got citizenship, so I think it’s a win-win situation. And yeah, he’s more like a hero, but for us! so well, I don’t think that the Russians admire him a lot.
Vic: Do people end up making memes about him?
Ivan: I think I saw some meme like pictures like <laughs> I have, that you have, that, exchange-
Vic: The trade offer?
Ivan: Yeah, yeah, yeah! <laughs> That guy, but I don’t think too many different things. And yeah, that’s, that’s the only good story I remember about Russians in this 4 years <laughs>.
Vic: You mentioned earlier about Patron. Could you tell me a bit more about him?
Ivan: I didn’t know how he appeared. There was a dog, Russell Terrier?
Vic: Yeah, I think Jack Russell.
Ivan: Yeah, Jack Russell. And all of a sudden he became popular, because he was like, working in the demining team, I guess. And he had the nickname, or how you call it?
Vic: Yeah, nickname.
Ivan: Nickname Patron. And it’s funny, because Pes Patron sounds kind of funky, and somebody made a song about him, and all of a sudden that dog appeared everywhere. So we got a lot of merch with him. I’ve seen some guy in a full body Pes Patron costume, congratulating person with a birthday. You need to do that to [redacted] <laughs>.
Vic: Okay.
Ivan: So there was like a huge costume, like two meters tall <laughs>. And, yeah, I’ve seen socks with this dog. I’ve seen T-shirts. I’ve seen, like, matches with Pes Patron logo. So yeah, he became like a brand somehow. And I didn’t know what his dog do- what this dog did, but probably he was very successful demining dog, until he disappeared from the media. I hope he was, you know, retired, rather than, you know, demined <laughs>.
Vic: Yeah, yeah.
Ivan: So, yeah. I hope the dog is good, and I’ve seen also- I think I saw video where the President was meeting with this dog!
Vic: Okay <laughs>
Ivan: I’m not joking! I think I saw Zelensky, and somebody bringing this dog to him. And he was like, holding and petting him. And like, I mean, that dog was ridiculously popular.
Vic: Have you seen merch with the other people we’ve discussed on them?
Ivan: Probably socks with the Ghost of Kyiv like on a jet, like holding a big thumb up. And I think that’s it, I haven’t seen much other characters somewhere, but I think Ghost of Kyiv probably was also on a t-shirt. And Pes Patron, Pes Patron is the most sellable thing.
Vic: Not t-shirts with pictures of old ladies on them?
Ivan: There were a lot of remixes on the Pes Patron. They were making remix of like Lana Del Rey song with Pes Patron on it. They were making like Pixies with Pes Patron. They were making Arctic Monkeys Pes Patron. I can send you that.
Vic: Sure.
Ivan: That’s absolutely insane, AI list of mashups or remixes made of Pes Patron song. And yeah, you need to listen to that <starts singing the Pes Patron song and laughing>. I still remember some of that, I don’t know why. Maybe he’s a symbol of our furry community <laughs>. I’m not sure, if somebody is he should be <laughs>. I’m not a part of it unfortunately, I cannot tell if it’s true or not <laughs>. But I think he could be. He could be.
Vic: Have you, I guess- have you witnessed any of these kind of folk heroes yourself, or anything exciting happening- because you were in Kyiv at the very start of the full-scale invasion-
Ivan: I’ll tell you what I witnessed. I witness explosion in population of Jack Russell terriers in Troieshchyna-
Vic: <laughs>
Ivan: I’m not joking. These dogs appeared everywhere. Everybody bought this dog. If you see like a small puppy in the street. It’s like, 7 times out of 10, it’s Jack Russell. People like, started actively buying them. They are cute dogs.
Vic: Do you think there was any increase in popularity of jars of cucumbers?
Ivan: I always loved her <laughs>. Probably, probably, yes. It can be, but I always love pickled cucumbers, and my grandma is doing them, so, yeah, not buying them. I just, you know, ask my grandma.
Vic: Do you ever hear stories about, like, I guess, superstitions that have arisen during the war? Like a soldier I know was telling me that, apparently, it’s a belief with soldiers that if you have sex with an ugly girl, you’ll survive another year.
Ivan: Hmmm. I haven’t heard of that. I think you mentioned it before, and I heard it maybe from you, but I haven’t heard about any other superstitions in Ukraine. In Ukrainian culture, we already have quite a lot of superstitions. We have the superstition that when you go out of your home and you return because you forgot something, you need to look into the mirror. So like, you will reflect the bad luck. If you forget to look into the mirror and you return home, you will have a bad luck. If you looked into the mirror, it’s alright. And yeah, obviously, some things like, crossing the road- the black cat crosses the road, walking under the ladder, breaking the mirror, what else? Spilling salt and some other very common things? Yeah, people believe in it. Ukrainians are kind of superstitious and also religious, so I think one goes with the other.
Vic: So no new ones that you’ve noticed around, like, I don’t know, alarms or soldiers or anything?
Ivan: I don’t think. I have only, like one friend whom I more or less actively speak who’s a soldier, and, yeah, I don’t remember that he told me some stories with superstitions. Hmm. I may ask him, but yeah, I don’t remember anything myself.
Vic: Okay, cool, yeah, I think that was all the questions I had for you, unless you’ve got any other thing that’s kind of popped up in your mind, any other stories that you thought of?
Ivan: I don’t think so, maybe I recall something and can call you so you can record, but probably not now, I don’t remember something there.
Vic: Okay, thank you.
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